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FH-Dave
12-13-2005, 01:25 PM
Hi people,

As promised, the new plans are here. Please see http://www.fluidhosting.com/new_plans.php . Please do not try to sign up yet. If you have any questions/concerns, feel free to ask away! :)

dagta
12-13-2005, 01:42 PM
Thanks for the new plans!

When will the Windows servers support .NET Framework 2.0?

suzi
12-13-2005, 01:48 PM
Awesome! Great plans. :thumbup:

But I wish you had one that allowed 100 GB of bandwidth. Guess I'll just keep paying for the overusage each month...

When will we be able to sign up for the new plans?

FH-Dave
12-13-2005, 01:50 PM
Suzi,

If you plan to use tons of bw, the VPS plans may be better for you. New VPS plans will also be made official soon.

Thank you for the comments so far.

suzi
12-13-2005, 01:52 PM
I wouldn't have a clue how to manage a VPS, though, nor do I have the time to learn. :D

Graeme
12-13-2005, 01:56 PM
Suzi: A VPS would also stop (or at least prevent) the problem you faced earlier today. ;)

Go on you know you want to! :D

Graeme

ian
12-13-2005, 02:22 PM
On the whole, I really like the new plans, particularly the extra bandwidth. But maybe the domains (possibly databases too) could be increased a bit, say somewhere between where they are now and where they were before? :)

theOG
12-13-2005, 02:55 PM
On the whole, I really like the new plans, particularly the extra bandwidth. But maybe the domains (possibly databases too) could be increased a bit, say somewhere between where they are now and where they were before? :)

+2

I agree. I love the new plans, but the low multiple domains is an issue.

How much work does go into vps? Is there a windows vps? I'll have to do some research on this...

Jack
12-13-2005, 03:07 PM
Absolutely fantastic news, Dave! When and how can we / do we go about switching plans?

ono-neko
12-13-2005, 03:10 PM
Thanks for the new plans!

When will the Windows servers support .NET Framework 2.0?

dagta,

Unfortunately, HSPhere doesn't support .NET 2.0 yet. Although I think I've heard rumor they are working on it, but so far there's no ETA or definite news about it from PSoft yet.

FH-Dave
12-13-2005, 06:23 PM
The lower domains is intended. I think we have been too generous in the past. While making new plans, I am also researching for other hosts and the ones that I think is of our caliber gives quite a bit less, not to mention limited number of mailboxes, etc. The lower number of domains is being compensated by the lower price it takes to add domains, $1/domains instead of $2/domain. Even if you host a lot of domains, I believe the new plans will be cheaper still considering the amount of space and bandwidth you are getting.

suzi
12-13-2005, 07:40 PM
Suzi: A VPS would also stop (or at least prevent) the problem you faced earlier today. ;)

Go on you know you want to! :D

Graeme

Graeme,

I'd have to hire someone to manage a VPS, so it'd probably cost me more than paying for the extra bandwidth. Unless my bw takes a huge jump, that is. :P

FH-Dave
12-13-2005, 10:09 PM
Just a few typical examples.

Example 1
Say you have 15 domains you would like to host. Under our current plan, you will need to to purchase at least our Premium Advanced plan and pay for additional $6/month for the 3 additional domains. This means $40.95/month for Unix Premium Advanced plan and that gives you 1200 MB of space and 25 GB of bandwidth.

Under the new plan, you can start with "Large Unix Plan" for $24.95/month. This gives you 6 domains for free. You then add 11 domains for $11/month extra for a total of $35.95/month. It's cheaper, and not to mention you have 2000 MB of space and 40GB of bandwidth.

Example 2
Say you have 6 domains you would like to host. Under our current plan, you will need to to purchase at least our Premium Starter plan. This means $21.95/month for Unix Premium Starter plan and that gives you 800 MB of space and 15 GB of bandwidth. Or you can purchase our Premium Mini plan and pay $8/month for the additional 4 domains. This brings the total to $19.95/month and this gives you 400 MB of space and 6 GB of bandwidth.

Under the new plan, you can start with "Medium Unix Plan" for $14.95/month. This gives you 2 domains for free. You then add 4 domains for $4/month extra for a total of $18.95/month. It's again cheaper, and not to mention you have 1000 MB of space and 20GB of bandwidth. Much better.

I don't see why you have to worry about the smaller amount of domains included :) The new bas and add-ons pricings plans/pricings are just simply better, no matter how you look at it.

Graeme
12-13-2005, 10:25 PM
How much work does go into vps? Is there a windows vps? I'll have to do some research on this...

As you probably know I have a VPS with cPanel installed so I'm perhaps not a good example of a typical VPS customer. However, I would say, if you've done any unix sysadmin then you'll find it a breeze. If not then it would be quite a large learning curve (but we all started somewhere right?). If you plan to do it in the long term and have no experience I would get an old PC and install Linux on it and play.

There is Virtuozzo for Windows (http://www.swsoft.com/en/products/virtuozzo/hsp/editions/Virtuozzo) but I imagine this requires a dedicated Windows VPS server. Only Dave can tell you if he plans to do that one :) I have no idea obviously how it would be to admin one of those :)

Graeme

brian
12-13-2005, 10:29 PM
Looked at the new plans and like the increased amount of disk space. I don't use what bandwidth I have now so that's not really a selling point.

But.... the amount of domains and databases? I would have to go with the highest priced plan to get what I have now - or do a lower priced plan and do add-ons. I realize that the extra domains are now just $1/mo extra but an extra mySQL is $3/mo. I currently am using 4 domains and 5 mySQL databases on the "Starter" plan. There's no way my costs could stay the same if I switch to the new plans.

Also, I realize that other companies may offer less domains and mailboxes, but do these really cost the hosting company anything? It would just be the diskspace/bandwidth used with these services that rack up the cost, right? I assume the mySQL database would be the same but can't remember if the database space is included in the total space used or not.

It may sound like I'm compaining but I'm really not. Just trying to understand your reasoning here.

theOG
12-13-2005, 10:42 PM
As you probably know I have a VPS with cPanel installed so I'm perhaps not a good example of a typical VPS customer. However, I would say, if you've done any unix sysadmin then you'll find it a breeze. If not then it would be quite a large learning curve (but we all started somewhere right?). If you plan to do it in the long term and have no experience I would get an old PC and install Linux on it and play.

There is Virtuozzo for Windows (http://www.swsoft.com/en/products/virtuozzo/hsp/editions/Virtuozzo) but I imagine this requires a dedicated Windows VPS server. Only Dave can tell you if he plans to do that one :) I have no idea obviously how it would be to admin one of those :)

Graeme

Graeme,

Thanks... for a while I thought I was typing with invisible ink on this page... :)

Anyway, I was able to do some reasearch... no, don't think I'm going to touch VPS... Suzi has it right. I have an idea about what direction I want to take now as well, and VPS does not fit the picture.

I'll grab my popcorn and let this domain/database issue play itself out... :D

FH-Dave
12-13-2005, 11:15 PM
But.... the amount of domains and databases? I would have to go with the highest priced plan to get what I have now - or do a lower priced plan and do add-ons.


Your better bet would be to go with the lower priced plan and do add ons.


I realize that the extra domains are now just $1/mo extra but an extra mySQL is $3/mo. I currently am using 4 domains and 5 mySQL databases on the "Starter" plan. There's no way my costs could stay the same if I switch to the new plans.


One thing that everybody needs to also understand is that we are not in the business to try driving our costs down without sacrificing some other important aspects. For example, all our staffs are inhouse staffs, hired as W2 employee or 1099 Independent Contractors. With addition of new staffs (and will be adding more as time goes), it is just simply not profitable for us to always maintain the same price or even lowering our price. Not to mention the inflation that goes around us. The only way we could reduce our pricings would either be to do mass and cheap hosting, subcontracting our support department, and also finding cheaper way to deliver the service (E.g. cheaper servers, etc). None of this I would be willing to do at this moment. Thus, even if we are going to keep the plans the same, I would have to increase the pricing.

The new plans/pricings may seem to be more for some customers, but for majority of customers, the new plan will be of benefit. The smaller number of domains and databases are done so in order to prevent large downgrades request from customers, (and thus, reducing our revenues and our ability to provide top notch all around service) while at the same time trying to be competitive.


Also, I realize that other companies may offer less domains and mailboxes, but do these really cost the hosting company anything? It would just be the diskspace/bandwidth used with these services that rack up the cost, right? I assume the mySQL database would be the same but can't remember if the database space is included in the total space used or not.


All little things add up. More features simply mean more resources needed to support it. As mentioned, we have been quite generous in the past in providing customers with a lot of free domains and databases. But over time, we learned that these are not actually free per se. Some customers do use the free resources they have, and as we are not trying to oversell our resources, we have to keep upgrading our servers to maintain the healthy performance despite the increase number of mailboxes/databases/etc we have to support.

So with the new plans/pricings, we are also trying to force people to think about what they really need and act conservatively. (E.g. don't create domains for the sake of using free resources, etc). For example, the other day, we had to go through all domains and sub domains on our windows web servers to remove some default HSphere index page. I am surprised to see that a lot of customers are adding domains/sub domains that they do not use. (And while doing so, I was complaining on how painful it was to go through each and all directories to check index.html files against file size, creation date, etc and to decide whether to remove it or not. Anyway, a little rant here :) ). It's always good to use what you only need.

The number one expenses here at Fluid Hosting is not bandwidth, nor disk space, nor anything else. It's actually the support personnels salary/wages. And this can't be measured simply by the number of domains, databases, and mailboxes. As mentioned, if we were to keep the same plan the same, we would have to increase our pricing as well. We have been improving ourselves in the support areas by hiring new staffs, extending our phone support coverage, and so on. And being as stubborn as I am, I have been refusing to outsource any of our support personnels.


It may sound like I'm compaining but I'm really not. Just trying to understand your reasoning here.

I am happy these questions are being asked. Keep them coming.

inTELLiGrunt
12-14-2005, 05:46 AM
I am happy these questions are being asked. Keep them coming.OK :D

One thing that everybody needs to also understand is that we are not in the business to try driving our costs downNo, that pleasure is ours :banana:

Discussing ...

People are not motivated by what they can gain, but what they loose. This is why the number of domains and databases has been brought up.

The # of domains is not a concern to me in the slightest, but there is an ouch in the databases. Let me advocate my point of view, using some numbers; all figures are comparisons based on the maximum $30% discount over 24 months:

- Those currently on the Mini with 1 domain will benefit in monetary terms by $33.60 [ $8.37/m (mini) - $6.97/m (small) = $1.40/m * 24 ] providing they can manage with a 25% reduction in disk space, otherwise they will need to bump their plan up, or fork out for over-usage (unchanged) by prepaying with their $33.60 windfall. That $1.40/m will buy 28 MB for 2 years.

- Those currently on the Mini with 2 domains, can either switch to the medium at an additional cost of $50.40 over two years [ $10.47 (medium) - $8.37/m (mini) = $2.10/m * 24 ], or stick with the small, and pay an extra $1/m for the lost domain, assuming the 25% reduction in disk space poses no problem [ $6.97/m (small) + $1.00/m = $7.97/m, $8.37/m (mini) - $7.97/m = $0.40/m ] a small gain of $0.40/c (the above example - $1), and a benefit of $9.60 over two years. If they have a database on both domains, they need to upgrade to the medium, as the second DB will cost $72.00 over 2 years for each 100 MB ($3/m).

- Those with a full starter, i.e., all 8 domains in use, will see an increase from $15.37/m (starter) to $16.47/m [ $10.47/m (medium) + $6.00/m for 6 extra domains ] that's $1.10/m, $26.40 over 2 years, or +0.9% [ 24 * $15.37 (starter) = 368.88 (the old) versus 24 * $16.47 = 395.28 (the new) ]. If the cost of an extra domain did not fall from $2 to $1 then this would have resulted in a 42.6% increase, so that $1 concession is quite significant [ it could have been $10.47/m (medium) + $12.00/m for extra domains = $22.47/m = $539.28/$368.88 = 1.462 or +46.2% ], but thankfully it’s only 0.9%, which I think is very fair. Severe pain increases await anyone come renewal time with 8 domains and 8 databases.

It was only the on-going delayed release of these plans that stopped me from upgrading to VPS some months back (I realise VPS plans remain in the pipe-line).

Now, a quick search of the net with reveal that popular opinion has it that FH isn't cheap, therefore, I already consider that I'm paying a premium. I have accepted this, but I can’t do without an arm and a leg :D

I concede that the increased disk space and transfers rates are a significant improvement, along with a DB price drop from $5/m to $3/m per 100 MB, and extra domains dropping from $2 to $1. Allowing for an increase for inflation, and putting databases to one side, plan prices are almost static. On the whole, I think you have delivered but for the gotcha that is the database numbers.

If, as you say, a number of domains and databases are dormant, or little used, then that can only confirm that the numbers of domains and databases in use do not always correlate with high resource use. This must be what people want, and what the previous domain and database allowances delivered.

My view is that there will be penalties come renewal time for utilising all I have now.

A final thought, many people see FH as a sanctuary from the rest of the crowd, comparing plans with the rest of the crown is to put the tree in the wood where it's growth potential will be restricted, surely that's not the intention here, this being a first draft for discussion, and not a final one?

Edit: Will I be able to stick with my current plan come renewal, or will I need to switch?

William
12-14-2005, 09:22 AM
Graeme,

I'd have to hire someone to manage a VPS, so it'd probably cost me more than paying for the extra bandwidth. Unless my bw takes a huge jump, that is. :P

In a few days, Sitepoint will be releasing a new book set for runing your own linux and apache set up. They usually have great books and this one is designed for unknowledgable dummies like us. :D

nvphone
12-14-2005, 10:27 AM
Will I be able to stick with my current plan come renewal, or will I need to switch?

FH-John
12-14-2005, 10:40 AM
You can keep your current plan, if you'd like.

suzi
12-14-2005, 11:01 AM
For me the new plans, or I should say the new Extra plan, will be considerably less costly than my current Power plan. The Extra costs less and has more disk space and bandwidth. I'll probably still be paying extra for bw, but it includes everything else I need, and 2 dedicated IPs instead of one. So I have no complaints, except it would be nice to have a plan that included more bandwidth. :cool:

I haven't looked at other companies' hosting plans recently, but when I was looking, I didn't see many that offered hosting for multiple domains at a reasonable price.

wireless200
12-14-2005, 01:05 PM
I'm paying mainly for the good support which I've been receiving. The hardware and throughput are very good as well. The plans are roughly equal for what I do. Keep up the good work.

FH-Dave
12-14-2005, 02:03 PM
You can keep your current plan, if you'd like.

Please disregard this note.

Old plans older than 08/01/2004 will definitely be phased out. The current Unix/Windows Performance Plan introduced since 08/01/2004 may also get phased out. A notifcation will be available soon.

Plans that we are phasing out, unless if you are under long term contract (e.g. not paying monthly):
Unix/Windows Value (U1/W1)
Unix/Windows Light (U2/W2)
Unix/Windows Economy (U3/W3)
Unix/Windows Standard (U4/W4)
Unix/Windows Deluxe (U5/W5)
Unix/Windows Power (U6/W6)

Old Unix/Windows Basic (OUV1/OWV1)
Old Unix/Windows Economy (OUV2/OWV2)
Old Unix/Windows Standard (OUV3/OWV3)
Old Unix/Windows Deluxe (OUV4/OWV4)

Still Under Consideration whether to be phased out or not:
All Special/Custom plans

Unix/Windows Premium Mini (UP1/WP1)
Unix/Windows Premium Starter (UP2/WP2)
Unix/Windows Premium Advanced (UP3/WP3)
Unix/Windows Premium Deluxe (UP4/WP4)
Unix/Windows Premium Power (UP5/WP5)

Unix/Windows Value Basic (UV1/WV1)
Unix/Windows Value Light (UV2/WV2)
Unix/Windows Value Extra (UV3/WV3)

New plans:
Compact Unix/Windows Plan (CUP/CWP)
Medium Unix/Windows Plan (MUP/MWP)
Large Unix/Windows Plan (LUP/LWP)
Super Unix/Windows Plan (SUP/SWP)
Extra Unix/Windows Plan (EUP/EWP)

bdeli
12-14-2005, 11:14 PM
Will the reseller plans be upgraded?

florin
12-16-2005, 10:02 AM
Well, I think the new plans are a major business model upgrade, so congratulations FH.
As far as I am concerned, these are the changes for my plan:
1. I will have to switch from U3 to Large and pay an extra 7 bucks a month plus 1.5 extra for a shared ssl. :weeping: But this is cheap, if I consider the benefits:
2. My bandwith will grow to 400% (from 10 GB to 40 GB). :banana:
3. My disk space will grow to 500% (from 400 MB to 2000 MB) :banana:
4. I will have to group 8 databases into 4. Piece of cake. :P
5. I have more domains than 4 and I'm not particularly happy to pay for add-ons, but as a php developer, I'll find a way to use them all and yet exceed not that limit. ;)
6. I currently have 5 free shared SSLs (yes, I'm that lucky). Well, I'll have to redesign something and I will be using only one for the future. :dunno:
7. Well, the best part of the new plans is that if my bw usage will be what I hope for, old FH plans were to small and I would have been forced to search another host for some domains. And this was the real nightmare :banghead: because I am happy with FH support and server speed and not willing to play the hit and miss game. As a matter of fact, 18 months ago I spent about 20 hours researching web hosts before I opted for FH and all this time I was very glad I did choose them.
The VPS is not an option yet for me (Suzy put it right) because of current server admin skills.

I think these plans are just what the doctor ordered, so on the long term they will help FH keep a constant customer like me.
I just hope the staff will ofer a decent notice time to switch to new plans. :help:

And one question: if I want to keep a shared SSL I have now, will I have to pay the setup fee for it when I switch to the new plan?

Graeme
12-16-2005, 10:22 AM
...but as a php developer....

...The VPS is not an option yet for me (Suzy put it right) because of current server admin skills.


As a PHP developer, running your own VPS opens up a whole new realm of possibilities ;)

It's a shame that there isn't a way for shared customers to see what's involved in setting up and maintaining a VPS. Maybe someone could do a VPS blog or something?

Graeme

florin
12-17-2005, 12:33 PM
As a PHP developer, running your own VPS opens up a whole new realm of possibilities ;)


What kind of possibilities?
I've seen a site that uses dynamic keywords looking as subdomains. Is this one of them?

Graeme
12-17-2005, 05:32 PM
Yes, that's definitely possible. I've done something similar myself :) You can set the DNS and Apache to allow the subdomain/hostname be a wildcard (like *.fluidhosting.com) and use PHP to show content based on that i.e. vps.fluidhosting.com / shared-hosting.fluidhosting.com.

A few other things I've done off the top of my head - add the modules you want installed in PHP and set up php.ini to match *your* needs - such as cURL and IMAP. Run code programmed in the likes of C to increase speed of pages or use system utilities. Test scripts with PHP 5. Run scripts that use non-standard ports - i.e. send an MSN Messenger alert whenever you get an order (if Microsoft still lets you ;) )

Graeme

florin
12-18-2005, 06:01 AM
Well, quite a few. How difficult would it be to manage a VPS for someone who is a PHP developer? I mean, for a VPS that will offer what a shared plan does? My server admin skills are limited to installing some Apache / Php / MySQL pre-made bundle on a windows laptop and IIS + PHP + MySQL on a windows PC.

William
12-18-2005, 10:27 PM
Well, quite a few. How difficult would it be to manage a VPS for someone who is a PHP developer? I mean, for a VPS that will offer what a shared plan does? My server admin skills are limited to installing some Apache / Php / MySQL pre-made bundle on a windows laptop and IIS + PHP + MySQL on a windows PC.

I seem to get away with it.

FH-Dave
12-20-2005, 06:09 PM
After the release of new MSA, Shared Hosting plans are released and we are now ready to take all upgrades requests from you. The following email notification was sent to all customers:


PS: Please do not reply to thsi email directly as your reply will not be attended too. Instead, please direct all questions/concerns you have to support[at]fluidhosting.com.

Dear Valued Customers,

At Fluid Hosting, we are constantly trying to improve our services to you. And at this moment, we are happy to announce the release of our new shared hosting plans. All customers can benefit from the new plans and pricings effective immediately by requesting upgrades to the new plans.

You can see the new plans at http://www.fluidhosting.com/comparison.php and as you can see, the new plans are bigger (more disk space and more bandwidth) and better. We reduce the number of domains included on each plan; however we also reduce the cost for additional domains from $2/domain down to $1/domain. Furthermore, databases (MSSQL, MySQL, and PgSQL) add-ons pricing have also been reduced. Overall, we believe the new plans are simply better and more attractive.

All customers are expected to switch from the old plans to the new plans at the end of their contract term. However, you can have your plans upgraded at any time, as long as the new plans you are upgrading to be at least of equal value to the current one you have.

The new plans name and codes are as follows:
Compact Unix/Windows Plan (CUP/CWP) – with 300 MB space and 10 GB bandwidth.
Medium Unix/Windows Plan (MUP/MWP) – with 1000 MB space and 20 GB bandwidth.
Large Unix/Windows Plan (LUP/LWP) – with 2000 MB space and 40 GB bandwidth.
Super Unix/Windows Plan (SUP/SWP) – with 3000 MB space and 60 GB bandwidth.
Extra Unix/Windows Plan (EUP/EWP) – with 4000 MB space and 80 GB bandwidth.

As always, we offer prepayment discounts of 10%, 15%, 20%, and 30% for 3 months, 6 months, 12 months, and 24 months prepayment respectively.


Please note that the following plans will be phased out and you will be expected to change to the new plans at the end of your contract term:

Old Unix/Windows Basic (OUV1/OWV1)
Old Unix/Windows Economy (OUV2/OWV2)
Old Unix/Windows Standard (OUV3/OWV3)
Old Unix/Windows Deluxe (OUV4/OWV4)
Unix/Windows Value (U1/W1)
Unix/Windows Light (U2/W2)
Unix/Windows Economy (U3/W3)
Unix/Windows Standard (U4/W4)
Unix/Windows Deluxe (U5/W5)
Unix/Windows Power (U6/W6)
Unix/Windows Premium Mini (UP1/WP1)
Unix/Windows Premium Starter (UP2/WP2)
Unix/Windows Premium Advanced (UP3/WP3)
Unix/Windows Premium Deluxe (UP4/WP4)
Unix/Windows Premium Power (UP5/WP5)
Unix/Windows Value Basic (UV1/WV1)
Unix/Windows Value Light (UV2/WV2)
Unix/Windows Value Extra (UV3/WV3)

And All Special/Custom plans

You can login to your control panel and see the current plan your account has. If you are not sure the account plan you have currently, please do not hesitate to contact us at support[at]fluidhosting.com.

If for some reasons, you would like to stay with your current plans, then we advice you to upgrade to a longer contract commitment or to have your contract starting date readjusted. These must be requested before 01/31/2006 by sending email to support[at]fluidhosting.com. Below are two examples:
1. you are currently under Unix Premium Starter plan with monthly commitment/contract. And you would like to secure the current plan for at least another six months. In this case, simply email us at support[at]fluidhosting.com before 01/31/2006 to have your billing term changed to six months. You will be guaranteed to keep your current plan for another six months. At the end of the six month period, you will need to upgrade to one of our new plans.
2. You signed up for Unix Premium Starter plan on February 1st, 2005 with annual contract. By our term, you will need to upgrade to one of our new plans on/before February 1st, 2006. However, you can request to have your current contract starting date be adjusted to 12/20/2005 (today) and this will allow you to keep your plan until 12/19/2006 before you will be asked to upgrade to our new plans on 12/20/2006. Simply email us at support[at]fluidhosting.com before 01/31/2006 to have your contract starting date be adjusted.

Without any requests from you, at the end of your contract term, you will be upgrade to our new plans automatically and the following upgrade paths will be used (current plan --> new plan):

Old Unix/Windows Basic (OUV1/OWV1) --> Compact Unix/Windows Plan (CUP/CWP)
Old Unix/Windows Economy (OUV2/OWV2) --> Medium Unix/Windows Plan (MUP/MWP)
Old Unix/Windows Standard (OUV3/OWV3) --> Large Unix/Windows Plan (LUP/LWP)
Old Unix/Windows Deluxe (OUV4/OWV4) --> Super Unix/Windows Plan (SUP/SWP)
Unix/Windows Value (U1/W1) --> Compact Unix/Windows Plan (CUP/CWP)
Unix/Windows Light (U2/W2) --> Medium Unix/Windows Plan (MUP/MWP)
Unix/Windows Economy (U3/W3) --> Medium Unix/Windows Plan (MUP/MWP)
Unix/Windows Standard (U4/W4) --> Large Unix/Windows Plan (LUP/LWP)
Unix/Windows Deluxe (U5/W5) --> Super Unix/Windows Plan (SUP/SWP)
Unix/Windows Power (U6/W6) --> Extra Unix/Windows Plan (EUP/EWP)
Unix/Windows Premium Mini (UP1/WP1) --> Medium Unix/Windows Plan (MUP/MWP)
Unix/Windows Premium Starter (UP2/WP2) --> Large Unix/Windows Plan (LUP/LWP)
Unix/Windows Premium Advanced (UP3/WP3) --> Super Unix/Windows Plan (SUP/SWP)
Unix/Windows Premium Deluxe (UP4/WP4) --> Extra Unix/Windows Plan (EUP/EWP)
Unix/Windows Premium Power (UP5/WP5) --> Extra Unix/Windows Plan (EUP/EWP)
Unix/Windows Value Basic (UV1/WV1) --> Medium Unix/Windows Plan (MUP/MWP)
Unix/Windows Value Light (UV2/WV2) --> Large Unix/Windows Plan (LUP/LWP)
Unix/Windows Value Extra (UV3/WV3) --> Large Unix/Windows Plan (LUP/LWP)

Specials/Custom Plans will be evaluated on case by case basis.

To have your account upgraded to the new plans and start enjoying the benefits today, please open a ticket from your control panel and specify which account plan you would like to be upgraded too. Please note the upgrade procedure will not cause any downtime to your websites. The upgrade simply increase your plans definition without causing any service interruption.

Should you have any questions/concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us at support[at]fluidhosting.com. We will be available to assist you with any questions/concerns you have regarding these new plans and the upgrade procedures.

Sincerely,
Dave Tong
Fluid Hosting, LLC

gubaguba
12-20-2005, 07:05 PM
I just did the math on what I have now and what it will cost me to continue with what I will be "down graded" to and my cost to host with fluidhosting almost doubled. Currently I pay $172 yearly with the new program I would pay $143. However to equal what I have now I would pay an additional $60 for domains, $24 for additional IP, $50 for SSH, $23 for a shared SSL. So my new plan would cost $300 for exactly what I have now. What I gain is useless I don't use the bandwidth or the disk space I have now. I have been a client for nearly 3 years yet the letter gives no explanation for the cost increases. This alone would give me reason to leave. I am unsure of the economics of hosting but it would seem likely that the cost would decrease not increase unless it runs counter to every other technology I use which seems to constantly offer me more for less. What is worse is I just recommended them in a forum I am active in this morning. I will now have to post otherwise.

FH-Dave
12-20-2005, 07:20 PM
If you already have SSH access, then you don't need to pay again.

Regarding IP, how is it you pay additional $24 under the new plan that you don't under the old plan? Your old plan ($172/yr) and new plan should come with the same number of IP. I don't see how the new plan will cost you almost double. Please contact us and we will take a look into it.

In any case, there are ways for you to keep your current plan if you would like to. Please read the email notification I sent carefully. Thank you!

bdeli
12-20-2005, 07:23 PM
FH-Dave - will the reseller plans be upgraded?

FH-Dave
12-20-2005, 07:44 PM
new reseller plans are still pending. We will next release the new VPS plans (within 24 hours). After which, we will release the new reseller plans, hopefully before Christmas.

dagta
12-21-2005, 02:32 AM
Dave, I have some concerns about the change of plans email.

If I'm reading it correctly, the most anyone can do to extend their current plan is to extend it as far as 12/19/2006. To do so, that person must pre-pay up to that point. On that date, the customer will be forced to upgrade to a new plan.

If I'm also reading it correcty, customers are not permitted to downgrade to lesser plans.

I have not changed my plan since I started with Fluid Hosting. I was fortunate to get in on the Christmas special you ran in late 2003 / early 2004. I have watched the new plan releases since then and none of them have a plan that can match the special I received. I realize this is a special case. However, I cannot see myself continuing with an upgraded plan. In fact, I've considered moving to a slightly smaller plan but have not come to a decision on that.

My plan is set to renew sometime in February. I would prefer to stay with Fluid Hosting as I have not found another shared hosting provider with the level of quality and service your company offers. However, it will not be feasible for me to continue at a higher rate at this time.

I do not intend this post to read as any kind of threat. It is simply the status of my current shared hosting situation. I would be disappointed to leave Fluid Hosting as I do not believe I will find better service, but I will have to do what I can afford.

If you are willing, please rethink the wording of your plans and your decision to force customers to change/upgrade to new plans.

Thank you.

inTELLiGrunt
12-21-2005, 03:36 AM
Dave, you have a vocal minority and a silent majority, but what if they are all thinking the same? ...

From today's [Fluid Hosting Notification] New plans and pricings released! Simply bigger and better! ...

"However, you can have your plans upgraded at any time, as long as the new plans you are upgrading to be at least of equal value to the current one you have."

"Without any requests from you, at the end of your contract term, you will be upgrade to our new plans automatically"

... i.e., you can only upgrade if you spend more money, and if you don't upgrade we'll do it for you.

FH-Dave
12-21-2005, 06:35 AM
dagta,

As mentioned in the email, all special plans will be dealt on case by case basis. Please contact me and I will work it out iwth you :)

suzi
12-22-2005, 09:09 PM
Graeme wrote:

It's a shame that there isn't a way for shared customers to see what's involved in setting up and maintaining a VPS. Maybe someone could do a VPS blog or something?

Graeme, since you are the big VPS enthusiast and have the experience and expertise, I nominate *you* to do the blog. :D

I know you know how to install MT, too. ;)

FH-Dave
12-22-2005, 09:17 PM
... i.e., you can only upgrade if you spend more money, and if you don't upgrade we'll do it for you.

Actually, you miss the whole point there :)

We give more than 30 days for everybody to voice their concern if they wish not to be upgraded. We will work it out with everybody. However, after 01/31/2006, if customer does not contact us, then we assume the recommended upgrade path has been agreed to and we will simply do the upgade for customer to save time. So the soonest we will do automatic upgrade would be 01/31/2006 or at the end of customer's billing term following 01/31/2006.

We have been upgrading quite a few people and we have been dealing with few special cases. For the rest of you (the so called silent majority), don't be silent. As you all know, I am all ears :)

FH-Dave
12-22-2005, 09:17 PM
Graeme, since you are the big VPS enthusiast and have the experience and expertise, I nominate *you* to do the blog. :D

I know you know how to install MT, too. ;)

I second this motion :thumbup: So Graeme, what da ya think? :)

Regarding our VPS, I don't like to use the word "managed" to freely. We don't like to claim and use this word too often as different people has different expectation as to what "managed" should mean to them. We offer our VPS as semi-managed. However, so far, throughout three years of offering VPS service, we have only charged one customer for asking our help to install a very unique/customized application. Other than that, everytime customer is having problem with the VPS or simply need our assistance, we just go and assist them.

ian
12-23-2005, 07:13 AM
I was going to put this in a "trouble ticket", but as it concerns all existing customers, I may as well post it here :)

Regarding the no "downgrading" policy...

If it was always your intention to have this policy, I think it would have been a good idea to mention it when proposing the new plans, rather than after they were made official. At the last round of plan changes, I was able to switch plans without waiting for my existing contract to finish, so I certainly wasn't expecting it. I suspect others weren't either.

I still think this policy is a bit unfair to existing customers as we'll be paying more than new customers for the same service (in fact the old plans have less resources at higher cost). Also, one of the main selling points of the old plans was the "Premium Internap bandwidth". That's been removed now. I'm not saying that's a disaster, but the service is not the same as what we originally signed up for, and therefore I think it's only fair that customers should be allowed to freely switch plans. Don't you agree? :)

Cheers,
Ian.

Graeme
12-23-2005, 07:17 AM
I second this motion :thumbup: So Graeme, what da ya think? :)


Sure I'll do it unless anyone else does :) Not until after my winter holiday though :D

Graeme

William
12-23-2005, 09:52 AM
I second this motion :thumbup: So Graeme, what da ya think? :)

Regarding our VPS, I don't like to use the word "managed" to freely. We don't like to claim and use this word too often as different people has different expectation as to what "managed" should mean to them. We offer our VPS as semi-managed. However, so far, throughout three years of offering VPS service, we have only charged one customer for asking our help to install a very unique/customized application. Other than that, everytime customer is having problem with the VPS or simply need our assistance, we just go and assist them.

Yep. I probably would have killed my VPS long ago if it wasn't for Dave, John and the rest of the gang behind the scenes.

nvphone
12-23-2005, 09:50 PM
So, if I go and lets say per-pay a year up front, then I am cool with my old plan for a year?
Really no big beef here as it is a tax write off anyway.

FH-Dave
12-24-2005, 09:49 AM
So, if I go and lets say per-pay a year up front, then I am cool with my old plan for a year?
Really no big beef here as it is a tax write off anyway.

You are on our current Unix Premium Mini plan. This will be supported until 12/31/2006, at which point I will decide whether to support this plan again. But now, if you are happy with the plan you have now there is nothing you need to do.

FH-Dave
12-24-2005, 10:13 AM
Regarding the no "downgrading" policy...


We have been doing downgrades for customers with monthly contract. For customer with longer term contract, we simply ask customer to finish their contract prior to asking for downgrade. Or if they want to upgrade, they can do it anytime. I believe this is a fair policy.


At the last round of plan changes, I was able to switch plans without waiting for my existing contract to finish, so I certainly wasn't expecting it. I suspect others weren't either.


Yes, and this will no longer be the case with new MSA. I have seen people signing up for two years, then at then of the 30 day period, request refund. there are also people who signed for two years and to have them request to be changed to monthly and asked for the remaining hosting fee to be refunded to their credit card.

Prepayment is one of our way to plan for our growth. For this, we give deep discount and we expect customer to keep the value of the contract they have. I do believe when you prepay, you are making a commitment to us and we are making a commitment to you.


I still think this policy is a bit unfair to existing customers as we'll be paying more than new customers for the same service (in fact the old plans have less resources at higher cost).


You can't directly compare the old plan and the new plan as I do intentionally make them different. If customer only needs the bandwidth and space allocation on the new plan, then I am sure paying extra $3-$5/month is really not asking too much. If you were to add disk space and bandwdith using add ons, the cost would be a lot more under your current plan.


Also, one of the main selling points of the old plans was the "Premium Internap bandwidth". That's been removed now. I'm not saying that's a disaster, but the service is not the same as what we originally signed up for, and therefore I think it's only fair that customers should be allowed to freely switch plans. Don't you agree? :)


Putting customer on Internap has never been a guarantee of service that customer signs up for. Thus, I disagree. But for all customers that really want Internap, I can put you on an Internap only bandwidth/IP. However, you will again stay with your current plan and we will also charge you more on this.

Although we can increase our price, we have never done so. Customer who signed up on 2002 is still pay the same price they had 3 years ago. But everything around us has changed.
We have added new staffs (none outsourced), adding new phone coverage, invested heavily on our network/equipments, upgrading all of our servers to a better one (more memory, RAID1/5 subsytem, etc), while at the same time having to experience inflation after inflation. When you signed up originally, you were put on a less inferior server. However, we don't think you should be kept on an inferior server, thus we upgraded the server you are one. I do believe a change of $3-$5/month is a fair one and well deserved. If customer does not agree to it, then customer may choose to stay with the current plan (2004 plans) and enjoy the plan at the same price. If customer want to downgrade, we never forbid them to do so. We only ask customer to finsih their promised contract value with us.

I believe this is a fair policy. Especially, we are not forcing you to upgade and increase our price on you. Not at all.

Thank you for voicing your concern.

Have a good Christmas and New Year, everybody!

dbronstein
12-27-2005, 11:12 AM
Coming in a bit late here. I haven't compared the new prices yet, but even if I have to pay a couple of bucks a month more, I'm fine with it. I used several other hosting companies that had crap service before I found FH and it's worth paying a little extra for the reliability and service. JMO.

Dennis

ian
12-27-2005, 09:13 PM
If customer want to downgrade, we never forbid them to do so. We only ask customer to finsih their promised contract value with us.

I believe this is a fair policy. Especially, we are not forcing you to upgade and increase our price on you. Not at all.
I appreciate what you say about an annual contract being a commitment, but I wasn't asking for a refund, just a switch of plan (still annual term). But I'm ok with my current plan, so it's not a big deal. I was just a bit annoyed that I'm only a few months into my current contract, so it's a while before I could "downgrade" to the equivalent new plan.

dohs
12-31-2005, 12:55 PM
when do you think the new reseller plans will be rolled out? i was planning on rolling out new plans to my customers jan 1 but would like to see your new reseller plans before i do so. i know things have been hectic for you guys with the recent hardware probs and the holidays, and understand that this is not at the top of your priority list. when you get a chance it would be nice to know your new eta on release of the reseller plans. thanks much.

Graeme
12-31-2005, 04:05 PM
Dave mentioned he was in Japan atm so I guess it'll be at some point when he gets back...

Graeme